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 Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?

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PostSubject: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:22 am

First topic message reminder :

Peyton Manning's Medical Clearance Makes Him The Perfect Fit In Every Way For Kansas City Chiefs


Peyton Manning has gotten the green light. And that’s the news that everyone has been waiting for.

Here’s the scenario. Andrew Luck is the sure thing. Robert Griffin III is filled with potential. Matt Flynn is the intriguing back-up. Other than that, the quarterback class for 2012 between the NFL Draft and the free agency class is uninspiring. Sure, Ryan Tannehill or Brandon Weeden might turn out to be fine starting quarterbacks. Perhaps a team could do well with Jason Campbell under center. But for the most part, there is only one sure thing on the market. Even Griffin and Flynn are questionable properties, albeit exciting ones.

Obviously there are more than three quarterback needy teams in the NFL. The Chiefs might not count themselves among them. But it’s hard to find anybody fan or media who believes that Matt Cassel has proven himself to be the consistent winner as the starter for the Chiefs that the team hoped he’d turn out to be if given the full-time keys.

You live and die by the quarterback position in the NFL, and it’s hard to believe that even Scott Pioli would believe he’s set for the long term with Cassel. That said, if they are going to go after someone — that someone is not on the market. Unless that someone is Peyton Manning.

The only way the Chiefs are truly going to improve at the quarterback position is if Peyton Manning is healthy and available:

1. He’s finally been cleared medically. Word today is as follows: The sources said Watkins examined Manning recently in Los Angeles and concluded the stability in his neck would have allowed the quarterback to play this Sunday if the nerves in his arm had regenerated to a satisfactory performance level. Watkins also instructed the quarterback to continue an aggressive rehabilitation path that provides an optimistic outlook for Manning to play in 2012.

2. He has to be available for trade or signing. Watching the drama go down in Naptown between Colts owner Jim Irsay and Manning tells you all you need to know about their ability to co-exist while seeing other people (on the field). Andrew Luck is going to be the man. Chuck Pagano is going to be the coach. There’s no way Manning comes back for a victory lap with the Colts.

That means that Manning will be both healthy and available. And check the line in that healthy paragraph: he will likely be ready for this next season. Those were the magic words.

There is no way that Scott Pioli is going to go for Matt Flynn after already trying the back-up quarterback route and paying him rather well to do so. Cassel was the one experiment there, and it’s hard to imagine the Chiefs trading draft picks and paying a big salary to yet another unproven NFL back-up quarterback three years apart. Just won’t happen.

There’s also no way that Pioli trades up in this draft. Unless Griffin falls a bit in the draft order (not happening), then the Chiefs are out of it from the outset. The team has too many holes to trade so many draft assets. Whether or not the fans think they will go for it, the perceived value by the KC front office simply won’t allow it. That’s called cost-prohibitive and the Chiefs lack the roster depth to accommodate that loss.

That means that the team will not make a move at quarterback other than bringing in veteran competition for the starting job a la Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton. Unless someone else is in the mix.

Consider Manning. The Chiefs have the players at the right skill positions to make Manning happy. He loves a Dallas Clark type of tight end and he has the second coming of him that’s even an Iowa product in Tony Moeaki. He has a new first round stud in Jon Baldwin who should develop quite well to go with veteran receivers like Steve Breaston and, presumably, Dwayne Bowe, who continues to show just how amazing of a receiver he is year after year despite his detractors.

The running game would instantly become better than anything Manning has ever enjoyed in Indianapolis as well. Jamaal Charles will be coming off of major surgery and rehab, but he’s young, dynamic and things have been reportedly going well there. The Chiefs should be expected to add another body and Dexter McCluster also keeps things interesting. Manning is smart enough to help whoever the new offensive coordinator is to utilize all of the talent properly.

Even more, Manning is owed a $28 million roster bonus that will likely earn him his freedom from the Colts. It’s hard to tell monetarily what will happen between the Colts and their franchise icon, but some sort of deal will be made. The thing is, Scott Pioli and Clark Hunt are sitting on around that same amount of unspent cash from last year. In other words, if the Chiefs need to absorb a major payment and/or pony up something major for Peyton, the money is absolutely there and available.

More than anything, the Chiefs have a major public relations nightmare on their hands. They have an outstanding lawsuit filed against the team alleging age discrimination on the part of the powers-that-be in the front office. They have Todd Haley’s allegations (and other former employees) that the team had a paranoid, controlling, manipulative environment that even included phone tampering and spying. They have the unspent money that no one has explained well to the fan base who continue to pay exorbitant prices. In short, Arrowhead is a place to be.

One move changes all of that. Short of Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning is the prize of the off-season. This story is even overshadowing the Super Bowl of all things. This is the big fish. If the Chiefs were to get him, they instantly become not only the favorites in the AFC West but guaranteed of several prime time games. The reality is that not only would they instantly sell a million of anything remotely team-related, but any and all ill feelings would dissipate immediately. A PR nightmare needs a salve that heals all wounds. Peyton is that salve.

That might sound dramatic, but imagine the frenzy if Manning were to sport a Chiefs uniform. Imagine the trade announcement. Imagine the analysis that would ensue. Imagine the press coverage of practices, workouts and the lead-up to his first official game action since 2011. Once you’re done imagining all of that, then tell me it’s not worth the move. Thought so.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:03 pm

redross006 wrote:
When are you all gonna realize that the Chiefs are FULLY commited to Cassell?

They were the last three years. When are you going to realize its possible for a new coach to go in a different direction? And lose the blind hate for Pioli?

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:04 pm

redross006 wrote:
And that Orton will not stay because he will not be given an equal oppourtunity to be the starter. The hiring of Daboll just solidifies it.

Not sure how, Orton fits a Daboll offense better.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:20 pm

Daboll was probably given the job due to his willingness to "settle" for Cassell being his starting QB, otherwise what else explains us passing on or being passed on when there was CLEARLY much better OC candidates available. Daboll has already stated his faith in Cassell which points to the fact that Cassell will be the starter. Orton will NOT be a Chief next year and the QB brought in to "compete" for the starting QB position will be a joke. And its not a blind hate for Pioli. The QB position is the MOST important position to a winning team and Pioli refuses to admit that he made a poor decision in not only bringing in Cassell to be the starter, but paying him top dollar too.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:57 pm

Who were the much better candidates? The only one I can think of is McDaniels, and well that just seems like an easy choice for him.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:26 am

RustShack wrote:
Who were the much better candidates? The only one I can think of is McDaniels, and well that just seems like an easy choice for him.

Saunders and Jackson were much better candidates than Daboll! I'm not much on Daboll, I'm sorry! I'm not much on McDaniels either. McDoush didn't do shit in Denver and he didn't do shit in St. Louis either.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:10 am

You named two guys who didn't get an OC job anywhere this year. Denver had a great offense under McDaniels. In his one year with the awful Rams he had his QB get hurt, didn't have any WR's, and his OL sucked. High task for any OC their first year. But hey, maybe he got more well rounded as an OC because I'm guessing that the best stats any of his offenses have put up rushing wise.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:16 am

RustShack wrote:
You named two guys who didn't get an OC job anywhere this year. Denver had a great offense under McDaniels. In his one year with the awful Rams he had his QB get hurt, didn't have any WR's, and his OL sucked. High task for any OC their first year. But hey, maybe he got more well rounded as an OC because I'm guessing that the best stats any of his offenses have put up rushing wise.

Keep drinking the Belicheck, Brady Koolaid! Just because they dont have jobs as OC doesn't mean they are not quality coaches! You forget what Saunders did in KC! The only reason Daboll was hired over a guy like Jackson or Saunders is because fucking Pioli is believer in a shit ass zone blocking scheme.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:34 pm

Daboll was hired because hes an OC that runs the system already installed here. I see no reason to take a few steps back just to learn a new system. Saunders has only been successful here, no coincidence that it was with a line full or Pro Bowl/HOF players. Not to mention Tony Gonzalez, Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Tony Richardson and Trent Green.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:56 pm

We did interview Saunders. But maybe that is only because we wanted him as the WR coach. Oakland retained him so we couldn't go that route. People here wanted Zorn, but no one else in the NFL did. We were still able to keep him as QB coach. I wouldn't have been against Jackson, but no one in the NFL was hiring him after how he got fired.

But please, point to me one coaching staff in the NFL where the HC(or you guys for some reason insist GM) doesn't hire people hes previously worked with.

Daball in his first season with the DOLPHINS was able to make that offense #11 over the course of the second half of the season. What candidate of yours could do something like that in that bad of a situation on so little of time?

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:31 pm

Oh and I don't mean to further get in the way of the blind Pioli hate, but Daboll wanted Orton in Miami last year.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Rust you really are an optimist... I however am a realist. I base my opinions on what I've seen so far... which is jack shit. Carr will not take less $$$ to stay w/ a losing team. Players only do that to play for a team with a real chance to do something, and the Chiefs are not there yet. And Orton will not stay to compete for a job that the Chiefs are CLEARLY handing to Cassell. He knows that he doesn't stand a chance to get the starting job, even though he and EVERYONE but the Chiefs brass know he is UNDOUBTEDLY the better QB. Manning is a pipedream. Trading up for RG3 is a pipedream. The QB brought in to "compete" w/Cassell will be just bad enough to lose out to him. There was a long list of OC candidates that either would have cost the Chiefs to much $$$ or had no interest in being affiliated with Pioli or Cassell. Daboll not only came cheap but was willing to make Cassell his QB. Although I think Crennel earned the HC job... there were other HC candidates that either would have cost to much or wanted nothing to do w/ Pioli and Cassell. Romeo came cheaper and saves money on a DC since he's doing that job too. The Chiefs knew last year that they needed a back-up QB and they REALLY thought Palko was the right choice... REALLY.... REALLY? Until I see this franchise making better decisions I can't help but think that they are going down the same road as the KC Royals... cheap and in last place in the division. Which is a shame because fans of both teams deserve much better. And it starts at the top. Clark Hunt is not even a tiny fraction of the owner that his father was, and I think Lamar would be VERY displeased with the direction that Clark has taken this team. Clark is a business man out to make $$$..a winning football team would just be icing on the cake. And at least Carl Peterson gave us a decade of winning football.. what has Pioli given us.... jack shit.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:30 pm

LOL! Pioli took over arguably the worst team in the NFL. Carl didn't build shit here, he was all about making the Hunts money and putting together mediocre teams. Pioli's second year he has the team in the playoffs. We easily would have been in the playoffs again last year too if it weren't for Charles and Berry being out for the year. Hell we should have been without them anyways.

So, you haven't gave me one OC who would have been a far greater hire than Daboll, I'm guessing you wont be able to give me a better HC candidate either.

What do you want Pioli to do? Not be a good business man? Are you pissed we didn't sign guys like Charles, Flowers, DJ, and Hali for more? Who cares how much we are paying them, we got them under contract. I'm sorry that it didn't get us close enough to the salary cap for you. Quit acting like this is an awful team, our roster is in better shape than 3/4 of the NFL.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:34 pm

You keep going back to Cassel too. When have we ever been in a position to get someone better? Did you ever answer that? This is the first time I can recall. Yeah I've been mad that we passed on other guys. But turns out in hindsight none of them have been better. This offseason is the first time we've been in a position to upgrade for next year, I don't think its a coincidence that Pioli says for the first time there will be a QB competition.

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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:59 pm

Orton IS better and I am positive the Chiefs will let him go in favor of Cassell. Why you would keep a clearly inferior QB over a better one already on your roster is beyond me. I hear they"may" try to retain Orton but no word of releasing Cassell who clearly is a back-up at best. I think if QB was considered a real priority for this team the Chiefs would have to put Orton at or near the top of their list of players that they MUST resign along with Bowe and Carr. Orton will start somewhere else and Cassell will continue to overthrow, underthrow, and stare down his recievers and panic in the pocket. And are you telling me we never had the opportunity to get a better back-up than Palko? It's like they say Back-up QB is the 2nd most important position on a football team and Pioli thought that Palko was that guy.


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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:10 pm

Here's a fun fact. Daboll was against drafting WR Chad Jackson and told Pioli/Bellichick not to do it. There was also that Mangini rift when be left the Patriots and Daboll sided and left with him. But this wouldn't be the first coach "Pioli" hired that he didn't like. There have always been problems between Pioli and Weis too.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Chiefs hire a guy with connections to Peyton Manning
Posted by Mike Florio on February 14, 2012, 1:27 PM EST
With the status of Peyton Manning undecided in Indy and most teams not currently having a quarterback who plays as well as Peyton when healthy, the arrival of employees with connections to Peyton Manning at a new team will trigger natural speculation as to whether that team hopes to lure Peyton to town.

Case in point: The Chiefs have hired former Colts assistant offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter.

Cooter, who will work as an offensive quality control coach, spent the last three years with the Colts. He also played quarterback at Tennessee, like Manning once did.

None of this means that the Chiefs will be in play for Peyton. But if they are, and if they get him, there will be at least one familiar face to greet him.

Cooter is one of five new arrivals to the staff announced by the Chiefs on Tuesday, including offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, offensive line coach Jack Bicknell, Jr., special teams coordinator Tom McMahon, and special teams quality control coach Derius Swinton.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:33 pm

RustShack wrote:
Daboll was hired because hes an OC that runs the system already installed here. I see no reason to take a few steps back just to learn a new system. Saunders has only been successful here, no coincidence that it was with a line full or Pro Bowl/HOF players. Not to mention Tony Gonzalez, Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Tony Richardson and Trent Green.

That was my meaning as to why Daboll was hired. I think we have the players in house to have been able to run Saunders offense. Albert is no Roaf but no slouch and when you figure in Charles abilitys this difference is neutralized. Decastro is the 2nd coming of Will Shields. Saunders never had a guy like Charles or a legit WR core to work with. If Moeaki can stay healthy he would have had a Tony G type of player to work with. Not to mention the difference in the defenses between then and now wouldn't require near as many points to win games anyhow. Lastly, I really think Orton could have been our Green in that offense. Its just a damn shame!
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:41 pm

RustShack wrote:
LOL! Pioli took over arguably the worst team in the NFL. Carl didn't build shit here, he was all about making the Hunts money and putting together mediocre teams. Pioli's second year he has the team in the playoffs. We easily would have been in the playoffs again last year too if it weren't for Charles and Berry being out for the year. Hell we should have been without them anyways.

So, you haven't gave me one OC who would have been a far greater hire than Daboll, I'm guessing you wont be able to give me a better HC candidate either.

What do you want Pioli to do? Not be a good business man? Are you pissed we didn't sign guys like Charles, Flowers, DJ, and Hali for more? Who cares how much we are paying them, we got them under contract. I'm sorry that it didn't get us close enough to the salary cap for you. Quit acting like this is an awful team, our roster is in better shape than 3/4 of the NFL.

I going to stand on Saunders and Jackson like Rocks! Daboll doesn't have 5% of the resume that Saunders or Jackson have. The only reason Daboll was hired is because of Piolis and Crennels love for a scheme that fucking sucks and is sure to lose in the playoffs without a great RB or great QB.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:49 pm

redross006 wrote:
Rust you really are an optimist... I however am a realist. I base my opinions on what I've seen so far... which is jack shit. Carr will not take less $$$ to stay w/ a losing team. Players only do that to play for a team with a real chance to do something, and the Chiefs are not there yet. And Orton will not stay to compete for a job that the Chiefs are CLEARLY handing to Cassell. He knows that he doesn't stand a chance to get the starting job, even though he and EVERYONE but the Chiefs brass know he is UNDOUBTEDLY the better QB. Manning is a pipedream. Trading up for RG3 is a pipedream. The QB brought in to "compete" w/Cassell will be just bad enough to lose out to him. There was a long list of OC candidates that either would have cost the Chiefs to much $$$ or had no interest in being affiliated with Pioli or Cassell. Daboll not only came cheap but was willing to make Cassell his QB. Although I think Crennel earned the HC job... there were other HC candidates that either would have cost to much or wanted nothing to do w/ Pioli and Cassell. Romeo came cheaper and saves money on a DC since he's doing that job too. The Chiefs knew last year that they needed a back-up QB and they REALLY thought Palko was the right choice... REALLY.... REALLY? Until I see this franchise making better decisions I can't help but think that they are going down the same road as the KC Royals... cheap and in last place in the division. Which is a shame because fans of both teams deserve much better. And it starts at the top. Clark Hunt is not even a tiny fraction of the owner that his father was, and I think Lamar would be VERY displeased with the direction that Clark has taken this team. Clark is a business man out to make $$$..a winning football team would just be icing on the cake. And at least Carl Peterson gave us a decade of winning football.. what has Pioli given us.... jack shit.

With 63 million in cap room I think they will both be resigned to nice contracts. That leaves plenty of money to go out and get some guys. I didn't realize with the expiring contracts we had that kind of money available. I was thinking we were working with around 30 in cap money meaning they would probally want to spend around 20 and save the rest.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:50 pm

OutlawChief wrote:
Chiefs hire a guy with connections to Peyton Manning
Posted by Mike Florio on February 14, 2012, 1:27 PM EST
With the status of Peyton Manning undecided in Indy and most teams not currently having a quarterback who plays as well as Peyton when healthy, the arrival of employees with connections to Peyton Manning at a new team will trigger natural speculation as to whether that team hopes to lure Peyton to town.

Case in point: The Chiefs have hired former Colts assistant offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter.

Cooter, who will work as an offensive quality control coach, spent the last three years with the Colts. He also played quarterback at Tennessee, like Manning once did.

None of this means that the Chiefs will be in play for Peyton. But if they are, and if they get him, there will be at least one familiar face to greet him.

Cooter is one of five new arrivals to the staff announced by the Chiefs on Tuesday, including offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, offensive line coach Jack Bicknell, Jr., special teams coordinator Tom McMahon, and special teams quality control coach Derius Swinton.

Cooter is an interesting choice for the Manning situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:51 pm

RustShack wrote:
LOL! Pioli took over arguably the worst team in the NFL. Carl didn't build shit here, he was all about making the Hunts money and putting together mediocre teams. Pioli's second year he has the team in the playoffs. We easily would have been in the playoffs again last year too if it weren't for Charles and Berry being out for the year. Hell we should have been without them anyways.

So, you haven't gave me one OC who would have been a far greater hire than Daboll, I'm guessing you wont be able to give me a better HC candidate either.

What do you want Pioli to do? Not be a good business man? Are you pissed we didn't sign guys like Charles, Flowers, DJ, and Hali for more? Who cares how much we are paying them, we got them under contract. I'm sorry that it didn't get us close enough to the salary cap for you. Quit acting like this is an awful team, our roster is in better shape than 3/4 of the NFL.

Carl had some nice home grown teams in the 90's and went to the AFC Championship game. Vermiels team was completely traded for and suffered as a result.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:10 pm

RustShack wrote:
We did interview Saunders. But maybe that is only because we wanted him as the WR coach. Oakland retained him so we couldn't go that route. People here wanted Zorn, but no one else in the NFL did. We were still able to keep him as QB coach. I wouldn't have been against Jackson, but no one in the NFL was hiring him after how he got fired.

But please, point to me one coaching staff in the NFL where the HC(or you guys for some reason insist GM) doesn't hire people hes previously worked with.

Daball in his first season with the DOLPHINS was able to make that offense #11 over the course of the second half of the season. What candidate of yours could do something like that in that bad of a situation on so little of time?

I think Saunders was interviewed for OC and was asked to keep the same zone system and he told him them no. Oakland had the 11th ranked pass game and 7th ranked rushing game. The Raiders overall offense rank was 4th for the season. They only gave up 19 sacks. The Phins were ranked 11th in rushing and 23 in the passing game. Their overall rank was 22nd. They allowed 52 sacks on the year. Guess what that means if Cassell is the starter? Yep, lots and lots of sacks! I'm sorry but Jackson would have been a better choice over Daboll but it meant switching systems.
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:31 pm

Petersons overall body of work speaks for itself. Sure it was rough towards the end but you can't ignore the success he had throughout the 90's and early 2000's. He knew that to build a winner it took both the draft AND FA's. With the exception of Breaston I have not been impressed w/ many of Pioli's FA aquisitions. And you continuously praise Pioli for extending the contracts of guys like Charles, Flowers, DJ, and Hali. One, none of these guys ever reached the open market; two, were drafted by Peterson; and three were very obvious things to do. The fact that Bowe and Carr are hitting the open market is not a good sign. They should have already been locked up by now with the cap space we have. Now we have to get into a bidding war for at least one and pay the other top dollar w/ the franchise tag.

OC candidates...McDaniels,Childress, Martz, Saunders,and Jackson just to name a few. Granted some were gone early but the Chiefs did not act very fast to interview some of these PROVEN OC's.

HC candidates... this list is very short and like I stated before I believe Romeo earned his shot to be HC. That doesn't change the fact that he was obviously the cheapest option.
Fisher, Billick, Mularkey (I don't think Cowher or Gruden were ever an option).

And I would say Pioli's draft history could be labeled hit and miss considering who we passed on at times. As much as I like McCluster... I thought Cody at NT would have been a better choice. I think Balwin was a reach. Jackson was a BIG reach(especially when we should have taken Raji), Berry was a no brainer as was Houston. Moeaki is still up for debate because of his history w/ injuries. Lewis was a good pick. And lets not forget the players that we outright released that went on to succeed elsewhere,ie Jared Gaither,Brian Waters...
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SylvesterMalone1978
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:17 pm

You would think if Saunders was so good that the Raiders would have kept him as the OC. I think it was Jacksons offense, just like here it was Vermiels.

It isn't quite as easy to smoothly change offenses as you guys want to believe. At least not at the NFL level.

But I have to agree with Rusty here, you guys keep throwing out names that didn't get an equivalent job anywhere!
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chiefbravebull
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PostSubject: Re: Manning Cleared to play! A KC connection. How bout that?   Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:59 pm

It is what it is now. The OL coach job is huge for us though. Daboll will do fine and actually has some talent to work with.
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