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 2009 Redraft

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PostSubject: 2009 Redraft   Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:49 pm

Posted on PFT

“I’d take the same player again,” Pioli said this week via Bob Gretz.com. “Absolutely. Absolutely.”

Hmmm. We suppose Pioli has to say that, but it defies belief. Jackson only started three games last year. The same draft class included defenders like B.J. Raji, Brian Cushing, and Brian Orakpo in the top 15 picks.

We know sack numbers aren’t a big deal for 3-4 defensive ends, but Jackson has one in two seasons. He was arguably the fourth best end on his team last year behind Wallace Gilberry, Glenn Dorsey, and Shaun Smith.

“I know the jury is still out [on Jackson]; we all need to see that,” Pioli said. ”Everyone in our organization is pretty confident still that Tyson is going to be a good player.”

We need to see it soon. Jackson isn’t a Vernon Gholston-type bust, but there’s no spinning the fact a lot more is expected out of a top-3 pick.


(Speechless)

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:54 pm

Jackson is Piolis one huge mistake. Of course Pioli and the organization is going to say he will be a good player. He was a top 5 pick and they arent going to admit a mistake. Wouldnt be a good PR move to say we fcked up and Jackson sucks. But that's okay, Pioli did go out and get the best player in the draft the next year. Pioli is a good player evaluater for the most part, he just thought he could outsmart everybody else with the Jackson pick. Hopefully he learned from that and doesnt do anything stupid like that again and think Powe is worth the 21st pick this year.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:18 pm

I'll still wait to call him a bust as well. Everyone was trying to tell me last year how bad Dorsey and Shaun Smith were, well Doresy got better, and still is getting better.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:11 am

The difference is Dorsey was never so bad he lost his starting spot. Jackson is a rotational guy already. I dont think they saw their #3 pick as a rotational DE when they drafted him.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:30 pm

Chiefs09 wrote:
The difference is Dorsey was never so bad he lost his starting spot. Jackson is a rotational guy already. I dont think they saw their #3 pick as a rotational DE when they drafted him.

I guarantee you Jackson will not be a rotational player this season if he has done his part this offseason.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:34 pm

lol.. another guarantee. Jackson has done NOTHING to be putting out guarantees. There go the Chiefs red glasses again. Pioli has made one of the worst 1st rnd draft picks in Chiefs history to making one of the best the following year. I just tell it like it is. Just because I am a Chiefs fan doesnt mean I have to hang on Piolis nuts and pretend every single move he makes is good.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:44 pm

GOD wrote:
lol.. another guarantee. Jackson has done NOTHING to be putting out guarantees. There go the Chiefs red glasses again. Pioli has made one of the worst 1st rnd draft picks in Chiefs history to making one of the best the following year. I just tell it like it is. Just because I am a Chiefs fan doesnt mean I have to hang on Piolis nuts and pretend every single move he makes is good.

The fact your not acknowledging it takes 3 to 4 years to develop a D lineman means your a fair weather fan who will suck on Piolis nuts when Jackson comes out and tears it up all year like he did in the SD game before that injury.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:57 pm

No Fairweather fan here, just an honest one. I thjink Pioli made the best 1st rnd pick ever last year with Berry. I think Charles is the best RB in the league, and I feel Pioli did a great job getting him extended t the price tag we got. I also think that if Haley ever matures as a HC he can be a very good 1. I have only blasted Pioli on 3 things. The first is Jackson, he is flat out terrible. The second is Cassel, he will never be great like the Mannings, Bradys, Brees, or Rogers of the league. He's not even as good as Ryan or Rivers. And 3rd he should have traded Dorsey knowing he was going to bring the 3-4 to town.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:08 pm

I was just looking at Suhs stats for the last 4 years to see how he has developed in the NFL. I could only find 1 years worth of stats. Where are his other 3 years? The 1 year I see looks to be about as good as Dorseys 3 years combined.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:37 pm

GOD wrote:
I was just looking at Suhs stats for the last 4 years to see how he has developed in the NFL. I could only find 1 years worth of stats. Where are his other 3 years? The 1 year I see looks to be about as good as Dorseys 3 years combined.

Suh is one of the exceptions. Now, go back in draft history and tell me the last DT to come out and do what Suh has done in year 1? There isn't but maybe less than a handul in the last 20 years out of the hundred or so DTs taken in the first round. I remember saying that would be the year to take a 3-4 DE. It was obvious watching his footage, i watched him dominate Mizzou several times by himself. Several people asked me why i would take another guy that is the exact same as Dorsey.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:44 pm

I just think it's funny all I've said is Dorsey hasnt lived up to the hype. If you go back Dorsey was being talked about as the best Dline prospect in decades. Dorsey isnt a terrible football player like Jackson, he just hasnt lived up to the predraft hype. At least Jackson didnt have all the hype. Jackson was a reach and everyone knew it. Dorsey was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Suh had a lot of predraft hype and just happened to live up to it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:43 pm

GOD wrote:
I just think it's funny all I've said is Dorsey hasnt lived up to the hype. If you go back Dorsey was being talked about as the best Dline prospect in decades. Dorsey isnt a terrible football player like Jackson, he just hasnt lived up to the predraft hype. At least Jackson didnt have all the hype. Jackson was a reach and everyone knew it. Dorsey was supposed to be the greatest thing sinIce sliced bread. Suh had a lot of predraft hype and just happened to live up to it.

No, whats been said is that Dorsey is shit, and we should have drafted Clady instead or traded him for a 2nd rounder when we had the chance. Thats just not accurate. Not to mention when we made the pick no one would have envisioned we would moving to the zone blocking scheme a year later. Clady didn't fit our scheme in 2008 under Carl and Herm.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:58 pm

Clady would have been the better pick. He was and is a better football player. Dorsey is a better fit for the 4-3 and had good trade value. Dorsey isnt a bad football player, but sure as hell hasnt lived up to the greatest thing since sliced bread hype either. Remember most had him going #1 overall and if it werent for the knee concerns he would have. Would have been great for us if he did cause we'd have Clady now.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:17 pm

Jackson lost the job because he got hurt.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:34 pm

and when healthy was rotational cuz he isnt good enough to be the man
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:07 pm

Why would they bench Smith who was playing well for someone who isn't 100%? Its hard to stay in football shape when you are hurt. Even if his injury was completely healed, he wasn't in the same shape he was before it happened. Its not like we had nobody and had to rush him back.


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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:26 pm

GOD wrote:
and when healthy was rotational cuz he isnt good enough to be the man

Wasn't Jackson the opening Day Starter? or am I missing something?
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm

Chiefs GM Scott Pioli Says Tyson Jackson Is 'Starting To Make His Mark'
by Joel Thorman on Jan 25, 2011 2:14 PM CST

Earlier today while writing about GM Scott Pioli's appearance on NFL Network, I said the Kansas City Chiefs 2010 draft class "looks to be a masterpiece". While I'll stand by those words, not everyone agrees with me. What I think most, if not all, will agree with me on is that the 2009 draft class is not a masterpiece for the Chiefs (or anyone, really).

The Chiefs GM talked about Tyson Jackson, the top selection in the Chiefs 2009 draft, in an appearance on NFL Network down at the Senior Bowl on Monday.

"He was a player that we felt could fit the scheme we wanted to run," Pioli said. "We knew he could be the left defensive end of the future. One of the things we looked at with this player in particular was that we knew he wasn't going to be a big flash guy -- he wasn't going to have a lot of sacks. We just knew that we needed a cornerstone defensive lineman that could play the position and play the technique the way that we wanted to.

"It was a couple of conversations I had with some former coaches and other people in terms of who would be the right kind of player and who could do the right things. So far he's fit in really well and done the things we've wanted to do. Now that we're running this particular defense that we're evolving to with Romeo Crennel, he's starting to make his mark."While I do think through two years Jackson may be closer to the B-word than a Pro Bowler, there was some hope at the end of the season that he was improving. There's something I call the "third year leap" -- basically, if someone is going to make the jump to a good player, it'll be in the third year. Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome explained this nicely before the 2010 season started (Context: he was talking about Joe Flacco).

"Then that third year most players make the biggest jump," Newsome said. "The light goes on. They figure out they belong in the league and have an understanding of what it takes to be in this league. There's a maturity level that occurs in that third year for every player, where they start to match their physical abilities with the intellectual aspect of playing the game."So if Pioli is right and "he's starting to make his mark", ideally we see evidence of that in the third year leap.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:29 pm

I knew what I seen from that SD game and the end of the year. I think good things are in store for Tyson this year.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:34 pm

I would be pissed if we took Jackson last year. More than pissed, I don't know what word could describe my feelings. Last year was a loaded draft, completely top heavy and normal first round prospects being drafted in the second and so on. But the year we took Jackson, not the case at all. It was actually the opposite of last years. The players taken at the top weren't much different than the ones taken half way through the first.

Yeah it sucks hes getting paid more than hes worth, but thats how the NFL and draft works. Its not Piolis fault Carl and Herm gave him the #3 pick in one of the worst drafts in history, and no team wanted to trade up because there weren't players worthy of the high price tag that year.

Jackson has the talent and frame to be one of the top players at his position, which isn't a flashy position regardless. He looked real good Monday Night before getting hurt, and the injury set him back. Next year is the year its fair to start to judge him...

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:35 pm

I've admitted it before, I wanted the Chiefs to take Jackson that year. I just wanted them to trade down first. He wasn't my first choice, but he was one of the few players I was fine with ending up with before the draft happened.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:57 am

this is the year that i will start to really get after TJack if he doesnt perform allot better like Dorsey did.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Redraft   Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:27 am

RustShack wrote:
I've admitted it before, I wanted the Chiefs to take Jackson that year. I just wanted them to trade down first. He wasn't my first choice, but he was one of the few players I was fine with ending up with before the draft happened.

Last year you wanted us to draft Taylor Mays too... You related to Al Davis? Just playin.
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